Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

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Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 7. Mai 2017, 19:21

Hallo an alle

I'm able to read and understand German but I'm incapable to write it. I'm from Belgium. I'll try to make myself as clear as possible by explaining my problem in an english-german mix.

First of all, I can't find a proper manual (=werkstattantleitung) for the m102.990. I have one for the m102.983 but it misses correct information. Is there someone who's got the proper/original werkshopmanual?

My engine doesn't produce all it's power (=weniger Leistung) and it doesn't run smooth. I've been reading and I suppose (= ich nehme an) the ECU doesn't send current to the EHA (=Elektrohyraulisches Stellglieb). Here is what I've been trying to find out:

The trimming resistor (=abgleichstecker) for the EZL is missing. Someone has cut off the module. The two wires are not connected so that means infinite Ohm (=unendlich Ohm). Is signal oke for the ECU? Does it need a new abgleichstecker? I'm running Super98.

There are two air temperature sensors (=zwei ansauchluft Temperatursensors). A larger brasstype and a smaller black plastic one. The larger one is not connected. Why two and where are they for?

The engine misses the lambdasensor (=kein Lambdasensor). Can I fool the ECU in thinking there isn't any? Does it need a new lambdasensor?

The mean suspect (=Hauptverdächtiger) for all these problems is the thermosensor (=Motortemperatursensor). There are five of them. A 1 pin, a 2 pin, a 3 pin, a 4pin and vaccuumline sensor. Which one is the correct sensor and what do all the others?

You can answer in german. It's oke, but keep it a bit simple please.
Antworten in Deutsch ist in Ordnung, aber halten Sie es einfach bitte.

Kind regards
Vielen Dank,

Cedric
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Steffen102992 » 7. Mai 2017, 23:52

Hi Cedric....

Well the black temp sensor with 4 pins is cross connected to 2 separate ECU....
2 Pins belong to the ignition Modul (Zündschaltgerät /EZL) the other 2 pins belong to KE - Jetronic ECU... Both resistors inside the sensor are identical to each other,so you can switch them by turning the plug 90 degrees.... Every newer M102 (I think all 1.8-2,3 and also some M103) have the same.
I don't actually know the values of resistor depending on temperature, but just simply compare them...
The 1pin Sensor is only for inside, to show you coolant temperature in Instrument Cluster.

Well, to find out if there is a current on EHS you must insert an amperemeter into the 2pin line... If you turn on ignition, there must be a static current about 50ma or something similar... I only know this from 102.983.... It must be positive current, if not you must switch the amperemeter cables.
If you start engine the amps must go lower arround 3ma... Or negative...
If the O2 sensor is working, the amperemeter begins to go up and down arround 3ma.
Actually I have no manual here... It's all only my memory :wink:

But checking a 2,3-16 is similar to a 2,5-16....

Are you able to check the duty cycle (Tastverhältnis) at Pin 3?
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Steffen102992 » 8. Mai 2017, 00:02

I forgot something.....
Pług off the KE Jetronic ECU and start engine without it...
A normal working ke is able to run "oldschool mechanical" :super
And it will only run with higher idle and don't have much performance....
To run.. It only needs EZL and fuel!
And it still runs pretty well without KE Ecu!


Maybe post a video on YouTube, so I can see it running...

I think you have problems with Air leaks at manifold or maybe a faulty Mengenteiler (Fuel Distributor), maybe faulty Luftmengenmesser...

Or other mechanical damages like too low compression?

Tell me what you are able to check.... And what you already checked....
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 11. Mai 2017, 20:43

Hi Steffen

Thank you very much for your response! I've checked the 4-pin sensor's resistance crosswise. Resistance is 2.7kOhm for both. Checked the 2.3-16v manual and seems to be okay. Yesterdag I was running the engine and I pulled off the EHA connector. Couldn't notice any difference in idle (=leerlauf). I guess thats the problem...
I coudn't check for current yet. But I will!

I will check all sensors and wires for continuety as it is described in the 2.3-16v manual.

Is there a way to check the ECU itself? Resistance values between pins?

]I bought the car a month ago. Previous owner installed a new stainless steel exhaust and removed the lambdasensor. I'm installing a new one since it was originally... Will this solve the whole problem? I don't thing so actually.

Kind regards!
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon shaq » 12. Mai 2017, 07:52

Hi and welcome Belgianbikepower.

2.5 16 KAT have no power: Forget temp sensors and stuff

Those engines have a lot of problems with burned exhaust valves (because of pre Kats sitting close to head).

Resulting in poor compression and big power lost once exhaust valves are burned.

First check for motor compression cold and at working temperature.

Measure and post here your results.

Problem with injection systems. Yes motor can run a bit rough on idle, but it will have its power if cylinder head is mechanically sound. Because at full throttle even bad injectors will pour enough fuel into the cylinders...

Dont assume - measure only then you will know what is the problem.

BR
Nikola.
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 12. Mai 2017, 19:31

Hi Nicola

Engine is Decatted now. I forgot to mention, I've done a compressiontest last week. Only with a hot engine. All cylinders are over 12 bar. (Tester couldn't go further than that) :roll:

I'll check all the info that is given me so far. I'll check valve clearance, camshafts for wear and check alignment with crankshaft.

Thanks

Kind regards
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 13. Mai 2017, 21:31

Hi all

I've been working today and found this connector.

Bild

It is attached to the Hallsensor on the crankshaft. My tacho is working so I'm a bit confused where it is for.

Where can I find the female connector for this? I cant find it anywhere...

Thaks
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon chris_crack » 15. Mai 2017, 15:45

Its not connected to the engine.
This front sensor is only for service and testing.
The connector is part of the round connector housing next to the ign ecu.
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon shaq » 16. Mai 2017, 09:47

good that valves are OK, it can be also like Steffen pointed that engine ECU is disconnected (engine can start but with lower power) also check injectors taken out from engine check for spray pattern is it like it should be or not. check with alcohol spray (bremsreiniger) for air leaks on intake side when engine is idling.

BR.
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 18. Mai 2017, 20:19

Hi

Thanks again guys!

Now for the next question. Where is the original lambdasensor places? AsI mentioned before: the original exhaust has been replaced by a steanless steel pipe.

Is it close to the hole in the centerconsole?

Kind regards!

Cedric
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Henger » 18. Mai 2017, 22:13

Belgianbikepower hat geschrieben:
Is it close to the hole in the centerconsole?



Yes.

Abgasanlage 2.5-16V.gif


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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 28. Mai 2017, 20:38

Many thanks for the replies!

I made a photo of my exhaust. Above you can see the hole in the center tunnel.

Bild

Since I haven't got a calalystic converter, I'm planning to put the sensor in the second part of the exhaust. The closest to the whole in the center tunnel. There's the most of free space available. Good idea? Or will it be to "cold"?

Thanks

Cedric
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Steffen102992 » 29. Mai 2017, 00:54

Seems like you have a modified exhaust-pipe
Because I see a connection between the pipes.... Normally there is no connection.
The o2 Sensor should be close to the hole in the tunnel.
Maybe 10cm before the 'reinforced bridge "in the tunnel.
The sensors place is at highest position of the pipe (on top)
But pay attention, that the cables don't have contact with the drive shaft. :-D
The hole is the original hole for the o2-Sensor cable....
If you have a RÜF or KAT version you should find the opposite cable to the ECU underneath the ground carpet in front of the right seat. At my RÜF it was the same...
The harness has 3 wires.... 2 White (heating) and a green (Lambda signal)

Please check, if your car has the "KAT" coding caps on EZL ECU and KE ECU....
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190E 2,5-16 Bj.91 mit Evo2 Motor,EDK
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 30. Mai 2017, 21:45

Thanks Steffen!

Now the next question :biggrin:

I've checked timing and valve clearance. Timing is spot on! While I was cranking the engine manually (clockwise) I noticed that the timingchain slackens for an instant. This happens when a cam runs over the valve and the valvespring pushes the camshaft to rotate. Is my explanation somewhat clear?

Is this phenomenom normal? How to fix it?

Valve clearance on exhaust is more or less okay. Intake is a real nightmare... Some valves are more than 0.3 mm out of spec... Too much clearance on all valves.

Can someone please tell me how to adjust the valves properly? and more important: how to remove the camshafts. I have the m102.990 engine. Double chain.

Thanks

Kind regards,

Cedric
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Re: Problem mit 2.5 16v Motor KAT

Beitragvon Belgianbikepower » 7. Jun 2017, 21:15

This week I decided to remove the camshaft myself. I've been reading here and there and decided I could do the job myself.

All valves have shims between 2.94 and 3.10 mm. The thickest shim I need is 3.50 mm. Does it exist?

While removing the chain tensioner I made the mistake by unscrewing the plunjer first... I saw it in a video on Youtube. It's the ball valve type.
Result: the whole thing sprung apart. Is it cheap to buy a new one? Or can I put the thing together and re-use it?

Someone who can tell me the tightening torques for the "cambridges", cam sprockets and the chain tensioner?

Here's a photo. Can someone analyse my sprockets? Worn?

Bild

Thanks
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