Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

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Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon shaq » 20. Feb 2024, 08:36

Hi Marco,

I see you dont like your old, dirty Ignition coil.

You want your NEW one, is OK - you payed for it, invested money, and I agree tolerances are HUGE, but Bosch want to protect itself from complaints and returns - they produce parts sometimes OK sometimes out of CHINESIUM, low quality copper wire even aluminum is used to save on production costs, but MBA :coool: will earn their boneses that is only important :oops:

I graduated eletrotechnics college, even many technical people dont understand magnetism and induction AT ALL.

What if I offer you Speaker and say is OK tolerance is from 6 to 10 Ohm and you can play music on it.

On my college it was the most difficult exam where many were failing for months unable to EVEN pass with lowest grade - it was Electromagnetism :Teufel: and I got A++ :verlegen:

LISTEN - Lets make a deal: I helped you here a lot, I think fair deal is to give it to me as present. Your old coil. I like collecting ECE parts , even dirty ones :Daumenhoch:

And you take your new from Bosch. It cant be that bad, also you will be able to learn from experience how engine behaves when spark has lower energy, what happens with acceleration and consumption...

OK? :fragend:

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PS DONT SAND DISTRIBUTOR CAP, I only wrote do polish end of distributor arm nothing else :!:

And what you planned to do with holes in Carbon in cap? Polish them out? Make gap even larger? Is OK from pictures - even new will be like that in few months...

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About compression, it is important that values are similar and yours are OK, not 14 anymore but who knows with what values that engine left the factory, how was worker on assembly line happy or not during shift, got something from his wife (or boyfriend) that night or not :heul1:

About shims, not only Kawasaki, they are also used on some Peugeots cars and again after setting it correctly car won´t be faster :sorry:

Again, you can use what you have maybe just change places? You need to measure and they are probably 80% OK, maybe 100% all still OK, maybe only need to buy one or two or none at 80.000kms

When they did NARDO speed test, they checked valve gaps, they stayed in tolerance during GREAT ABUSE 50.000km at max revs and 255kmh

Don´t worry it is old Merc Quality not BMW or Gruppo Fiat :party

And REMEMBER they have quite tolerance, measure them COLD and MAKE SURE exhaust are OK FIRST = BETTER LARGER TOLERANCE THAN EXACT OR TOO SMALL

Intake will never burn valves, they are not thermally stressed so here any tolerance is OK but of course smallest tolerance will give slightly better breathing of engine.

they are adjusted ONLY not to get too long, because if that happens valve/seat will burn because it will not close (and cool off) properly

BECAUSE every opening of valve is like little hammer punch. It gets by 0.00001% longer and it accumulates. Also valve seat shrinks by 0.000001% and therefore valve adjustement is made to have correct gap. Gap to camshaft is important for noise levels, not burn valves and has slight influence on power (but minimal)

Meaning when they heat up and become even longer important is that they are still able to close valve to valve seat, therefore not lose compression and be able to cool off through touching seat and further into cylinder head.

Also is important for head rebuilds to ALWAYS renew exhaust valve guides, they get worn much faster than intake guides due to thermal stress.

Because they are big COOLING AID for cooling valves - only cooling through valve seat is not enough!

Bye,
Nikola.
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Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon Marco » 20. Feb 2024, 13:18

Hi Nikola

Indeed not, I don’t replace anything that is not needed as already recommended :) new coil, probably from Bosch China, is already on the highest shelf in the garage.

To say the true I’m also graduated at technical institute as electrotechnic, and to say the true even more, I was quite good to the point that I also got the Alessandro Volta’s medal as best student on the entire course BUT as you know if you don’t love the argument you don’t continue you don’t make experience you don’t improve and I did not like so much electricity :( …so very good 30 years ago in theory but no progress means that with my memory without much interest to go deep, I’d say that the resistance values are not so important as the number of coils at the secondary circuit.

I found some kits for Kawasaki shims, 13mm diameter, but as you probably say I can just pay 80€ to collect 90% of parts I’ll never use and yes, they are just 3, per each size, and they stop at 3,20 size while Mercedes arrives till 3,40. So better to check and search only the few shims I can need, most annoying is that you have to dismount the cam (hopefully only exhaust side) and reinstall, close the camshaft cover and reopen in few weeks.

About NARDO speed test, I think I’m not the first to wonder how they managed to open check and close during the pit stop in these 201 hours of hight speed tests. And if they had just to install a new shims? It would have jeopardised the whole duration of the test…

Thanks a lot for useful information on the valve clearance, at least with RUF head the exhaust valve seats are better then ECE as you already taught me.

I carefully examined the chain from Febi and I can say that it’s really a small chain :) closer to a bycicle chain than to the resistance of the impressive :Benz: 2.5 double chain size. But positive aspect is that producer is a respectable German factory i.e. IWIS.

I have also now the chain tensioner, it’s a very nice machined part, I bought this only to study and compare with what I have and to use the aluminium seal and the spring if match mine, but I’ll post a separate picture of this part because I think it’s interesting, I think it’s a ratchet mechanism.

Thanks
Marco
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Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon shaq » 20. Feb 2024, 19:20

Hi Marco,

Even if I am not receiving my present I am happy that we don’t need to discuss coils again :mrgreen:

About Nardo they had a team member dedicated to valve clearance checks. I have photos somewhere.

Maybe it was not every pit stop but to refuel 100-120 litres of fuel also takes time and removing insects from front side also takes time so no big deal about it.

For valve clearance checks camshaft is not removed only for exchange (if needed).

When I just check my valve clearance it takes 5-10min of chilling time in my garage, no hurry at all. Because I can check simultaneously ones where cams are not pressing on valve cap. So it is done quite quickly - just turn engine a little by wrench to test others or pull car forward 10cm if gear is engaged. I think at Nardo they were able to test in 2-3 mins or only tested exhaust ones who knows?

There is table in WIS W201 for valve clearance check 190e 16v - go find it, print it / is very useful.

Because there is table for values a) which gap and b) which shim is installed on which valve 1 - 16

So once you have it neet and tidy next time is very easy to prepare for valve adjustment job

I have private collection of cca 100 shims.

AE17195C-6A08-448E-97DC-BB1DB15C259F.jpeg


670D3DFE-7902-4F14-A6C1-77BCF56A3203.jpeg


Thick are needed for new cylinder head and if valve seats are regrinded then you need smaller

I don’t believe you need 3,40 I predict around 3,00 - 3,10 vere installed new and now you will get around it or smaller...

Also if shims are not new they might be bit smaller when measured so always is best to double check using micrometer. As it can be very stressful you measure gap then put right shim then measure and reinstall camshafts AND END RESULT is not good because shim was 0.05mm thinner then declared (talking about used shims)

PS your new tensioner - do you see „saw pattern“ inside? Piston moves only in one direction (forward) with spring removed?

Bye
Nikola
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shaq
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Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon Marco » 20. Feb 2024, 23:07

Buonasera Nikola

I found somewhere the Mercedes data sheet for adjusting valve clearance and also some procedure for removing camshaft and torques values, this will help for sure for a tidy work.
Sounds all clear except the concept why with the usage we move from thicker to thinner shims…I’d have said the opposite, but this doesn’t change the procedure which is theoretically crystal clear

I just hate to reopen the head cover which have the fresh gasket for measurement and the second if some shims have to be ordered. But I already bought a new gasket if needed.

Next message I post data and description of chain tensioner. :lesen:
Marco
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Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon Marco » 20. Feb 2024, 23:10

Pictures are not perfect, I don’t have the part now with me, but I think is visible internally is grooved where the inner rod has a washer that get stopped by the grooves, I did not forced the opposite but seems is moving forward only, and of course when installed the spring push. I’m wondering how is the one installed in my engine but regardless of this, the part arrived miss the end cap…!? How to close it? Is it assumed to reuse the old one but if they sell this as a kit it should have all parts that are needed.
If I wanted to install I hardly believe the exagonal bolt I have match it.

I hope my explanation is clear.

By way the part is well machined, it looks as a quality kit.

Have a nice evening
:winken:
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Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon shaq » 20. Feb 2024, 23:43

Buonasera Marco,

Marco hat geschrieben:Buonasera Nikola

I found somewhere the Mercedes data sheet for adjusting valve clearance and also some procedure for removing camshaft and torques values, this will help for sure for a tidy work.
Sounds all clear except the concept why with the usage we move from thicker to thinner shims…I’d have said the opposite, but this doesn’t change the procedure which is theoretically crystal clear

I just hate to reopen the head cover which have the fresh gasket for measurement and the second if some shims have to be ordered. But I already bought a new gasket if needed.

Next message I post data and description of chain tensioner. :lesen:


First dont worry about Headcover gasket. It can be removed thousand times as long as it is still soft rubber AND you dont damage it by OVERTIGHTENING.

Be gentle! It is so made. It is not gasket for single use. Once hardened it may leak some oil down. When hardened (from heat) rubber becomes hard plastics then is time for exchange.

About gaps on Camshaft is very interesting question - in my opinion when camshaft would be the part that wears it would need larger and larger shims to compesate. But that is not he case - camshaft "swims" in lot of oil and don´t receive wear in normal operation.

BUt what receives wear is valve bottom and seat so valve from every strike (spring I think is the main cause here especially at 2.5 with double springs) it as whole goes up towards camshaft maybe again 0,0001% but it accumulates and needs smaller shims in my experience after 25 or 50.000kms. (If I correctly remember) because valve shaft remains same length.

Saluti, N.
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shaq
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190 8v: 2.0 Signalrot/Sonnenbeige Final Edition 1990
190E 8v: 1.8 Avantgarde Rosso und 2.3 DTM '92
190E 2.3 16v ECE x 2 1985
190E 2.5 16 Flachschieber EFI
190E 2.5 16 Mosselman Turbo EFI
190E Evo1 Projekt Rennkarosse

Re: Distributor, spark plug cables and HV coil

Beitragvon Marco » 20. Feb 2024, 23:49

Good info that this is good soft rubber that can be reused as long it’s not damaged. FYI the first I bought in Mercedes, this new as spare is from Elring.
Apparently Elring has available only this and oil pan gasket, rest is unavailable
Marco
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